DISQUS

hoosiergal · 1 year ago

Okay, I am sure that I am in the minority here with this thoughts on IU BB, but I don't have to have championships. I just love the whole season, the rival games, the hard won (or lost) games, the hustle of our players. I love to watch the players improve. I love to watch players who may not be the best talent, get out there and work their a** of for old IU. Yes, I love the championships, but it is icing on the cake. I love IU basketball for what it is. I am really looking forward to next season even though we might not have what would be called a winning season because these kids and Crean have a mission to rebuild. I believe these kids will play their heart out and I couldn't ask for anything more.

deedubbadoo · 1 year ago

Truer words have never been written. I would love to see 5 kids on the floor that are playing for the name on the front of the jersey as a team. Sad thing is most "star" recruits see college as a launchpad to the NBA instead of a place to grow and mature both physically and mentally. I miss the Tom Coverdales, the Brian Evans, Dane Fifes, etc... Hard working guys that bought into the concept of team basketball and played as a unit. We lost a lot of that with the departure of RMK, I think Coach Crean can bring the hustle back to the "Hurryin Hoosiers."

BGleas · 1 year ago

I'm just stunned. I guess I'm in the minority, but you'd rather watch 5 guys who are less talented, but play hard, but finish like 4th or 5th in the Big Ten?

Are you guys for real, you'd rather have that than win an NCAA title and have a stock of IU players excelling in the NBA? Seriously, is that what you're saying?

I'm stunned, I don't really even know what to say. I guess I'd like to hear everyone else's opinion. Am I in the minority here?

PS: Can we please stop this misconception that Bob Knight didn't have top recruits that were projected as NBA talent/first round picks? It's simply false. His later teams that didn't win were like that, but Bob Knight's teams that won titles had top recruits projected as NBA talent.

deedubbadoo · 1 year ago

Yes I can honestly say I would rather have guys that will stay 3-4 years and play their asses off then a stream of 5 star recruits hanging around campus for the first semester, getting just enough done to qualify for the season then bouncing. Yes I can say that. It's the old adage winning isn't everything, and especially right now what IU needs is high character, hard working, young men.

I in no way said that Bob Knight didn't have good recruits, I simply said the recruits bought into the team concept and no player was bigger than the university which is what a lot of players now-a-days, believe. They are fed from a young age that they are going to be stars, and they think because they have a jumpshot that they can do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't hurt their draft stock.

I love to see IU win as much as anyone, I have been lucky enough that my family has had season tickets for about 20 years. I also love to see the "team" excel, in all aspects. After watching what Davidson did this year, I really understood what a team was all about. Not many people could name another player from that team other than Curry but their run was because they played as a team. You don't get that cohesion if you are shuffling in new guys every 2 years which is what these 5 stars recruits are looking at.

Direct quote from Bob McKillop:

"My greatest strength is to teach players to understand that when individuals surrender their individual self for the sake of the whole, the team discovers the best it can become.."

BGleas · 1 year ago

I guess we just disagree. I hope IU can compare to UNC, Duke, Kansas and UCLA, while you want to compare us to Davidson and Butler, wow how the mighty have fallen.

Look at the most recent NCAA champions. What's not to like about this years Kansas roster? They had plenty of highly touted 5-star recruits. Rush, Arthur, Chalmers, Collins...You wouldn't want that roster and to win the championship? You wouldn't want the current UNC roster, Hanbrough, Lawson and Ellington were all blue chip recruits and are destined for the NBA and will definitely be the favorite for the title. Or the UNC team that won the title, May, McCants and Felton, all 5-star recruits on a team that played team basketball.

I'd rather have a team with top talent and 5-star recruits, it's the coaches JOB to get those guys to buy in and play team basketball. If they don't then you have the wrong coach. Even Carmelo who was one-and -done. He was an outstanding teammate and leader the year they won because Boheim got him to play within the team concept and made his focus winning an NCAA title.

deedubbadoo · 1 year ago

That is the beauty of our country, we are all free to our opinions. I totally agree with you that I would love for IU to once again be mentioned among the great programs in the country. I am not in anyway comparing IU to Davidson and Butler. I am merely suggesting that rebuilding a university's reputation takes time, especially after being soiled like ours.

For now I think what Crean has done in a short time is phenomenal. Bringing in character guys that he can mold into a team. Winning will bring in the better recruits and restore the university to its once heralded status. I would love for IU to have the roster that UNC, Kansas, Duke, and UCLA have but, that is going to take time. 5 star athletes are not going to want to come play for a program that is marred in controversy and sadly, that is where we are right now.

Let's be honest, IU is not going to be competing for national prominence for at least a few years, so for now, I will gladly take the undersized kid who is ecstatic about putting on the candy strips and willing to work twice as hard. Like you said, the real test will be what can Crean get out of these guys.

BGleas · 1 year ago

It's the beauty of our country and debates like this are what makes being a sports fan so much fun.

Sounds like we're not that far off on our thinking. I wasn't criticizing Crean, I think he's done a phenomenal job with the hand he's been dealt. I don't expect 5-star recruits right now, I was speaking toward the future and the larger scale, not this season.

But overall, I just think you can (and if you want to win you almost have to) get 5-star recruits that are NBA talent/NCAA championship talent, that play team basketball and play hard.

I think there is this misconception that all 5-star recruits are selfish guys that don't play hard and only care about the NBA. Do you think Mike Conley was a me-first, all I care about is the NBA type of player? I would have loved to have him and Oden at IU. I thought they played extremely hard and played team oriented basketball in their one year.

deedubbadoo · 1 year ago

I agree, although I think that it helped that they played high school ball together too. That being said, I think a lot of the younger players do get labeled as selfish because they know that one or two good years in college, can net you a contract somewhere. They have people in their ear telling them how great they are and what they are going to be making, driving, living in, and they get caught up in that. Instead of players like Carmello who knew the money was going to be there, but wanted to prove how good they really were by winning a title and then going on to better things.

hoosiergal · 1 year ago

I guess I don't want one and done type players at IU. EJ was great. don't get me wrong, but I would rather have Coverdale, Suhr, Alford, etc. Guys who loved IU and still do. The one and done type players are a flash in the pan, out for their NBA stock but are they really there for the team and for IU? I'd rather have 10 Coverdales than 1 EJ. Amazing to watch, but more amazing to watch is a bunch of guys become a team, play hard and play for IU. One and done players are NBA bound, I would rather watch a 3 or 4 year player develop into that NBA player. Talent is a gift, but for the guy who goes to the draft as a junior or senior, he has work, dedication, pride and determination on his side.

BGleas · 1 year ago

Why do you assume that EJ, or any other 1 and done, doesn't have work, dedication, pride and determination as well? Just because he's more talented? I'd argue he has more determination and pride and dedication because he worked so hard to be that good.

I think EJ definitely loved IU and played hard for IU, at least until Sampson ruined the season. I think a lot of IU fans are jaded on 1 and done players because of what happened this year, but the blame should go to Sampson for screwing up a potentially unbelievable season, not EJ or other talented kids.

In a perfect world I'd rather have kids stay 3-4 years also, but in the real world I want the most talent we can get year in and year out, and then trust that Crean is a good enough coach to get them to play hard and in the team concept. And then also hope that the players stay a few extra years, similar to the kids currently at UNC or at Kansas this past year.

ALH_00 · 1 year ago

"Yes, I love the championships, but it is icing on the cake. I love IU basketball for what it is. "

True. There's only one "champion" each season. Even if you have a super-talented roster, nothing is guaranteed. (Memphis/UNC/UCLA for example). Championships don't simply fall into a team's lap three or four years after landing a No. 1 recruiting class. Championships are indeed icing on the cake...so the question is, what is the cake?

I think we found the main ingredient (a solid base) in Coach Crean. Now we just need to attract talent (the rest of the ingredients).

As far as the players go, I'm not sure I buy the polarity between one-and-done v. four year "grinders". I'm sure there are plenty of one-and-done's who make fine team players (Derrick Rose), just as there are four-year players who distract from "team" play.

I expect Coach Crean to be able to attract top talent and develop each season's players into a "team" that maximizes that talent. I also expect Coach Crean's to run a clean operation and emphasize the "student-athlete" aspects of college athletics. If he can do both, then I can simply enjoy the ride and be proud to be and IU fan. As far as championships go, I guess I am willing to let the chips fall where they may. (though I'm confident that it can be done at IU).

Great post and discussion.

BGleas · 1 year ago

That's what I'm talking about. I love that we had DJ White (a 4-year player) this year and I loved that we had EJ. I think Sampson derailed the season.

My hope is Crean gets the top talent, and then I expect Crean to develop that talent and mesh it into a team. Sometime the top talent leaves (EJ, Oden, Rose) and sometimes it stays 3-4 years (DJ, Hansbrough, Rush, Sean May).

The point is, I don't think anybody should say, 'I don't want this type of player or that type of player'. As long as Crean brings in talented players that play hard and go to class, then let the chips fall where they may as far how long the kids stay. Plus, it only helps a program in recruiting to have proven, successful players in the NBA.

hoosier07 · 1 year ago

guess we knew this was coming .... leaves us another scholarship open for the class of '09 i guess .... let's go Coach Crean!! keep wrapping these kids up!!!

Alex · 1 year ago

Hope they save it for '09 rather than a stopgap solution for 2008.

hoosier07 · 1 year ago

i 100% agree

jgongora86 · 1 year ago

i just want to pose one question. Do you think IU has done a bad job( I'm not talking about crean, its way too early but in the past ten years), in showing top recruits that if they come to IU not only will they come to a school with a big basketball tradition, but actually have a chance to become a legend if your team restores the glory that was once IU. I don't know why more recruits wouldn't love that type opurtunity. Maybe that doesn't mean anything anymore.

Petetuckyburg · 1 year ago

I just don't want to fall so far, that we can't get up.

JHoosiers77 · 1 year ago

IHSAA class basketball was started 1996/97 - in addition to all the coaching "issues" at IU in the past 10 years you ended the desire of many IN kids to play the game for the sake of the game with the introduction of class basketball. It became "what's in it for me" - can I win a championship at this school - can I get to the NBA faster here than somewhere else - so to answer the question "does it mean much to be part of the glory of IU - play the game for the sake of the game" then apparently not for very many kids any more. Hopefully Coach C can find enough of the right kids to play for the right reasons (see Butler - it can still be done) and make IU what it once was.

bling_tut · 1 year ago

i don't get your connection between IU's decline and the introduction of class basketball, please explain further.

hoosierfan27 · 1 year ago

Yeah what is he talking about I see no correlation at all.

BGleas · 1 year ago

And I don't want kids that play the game "for the sake of playing the game". I want kids that ask "can I win a championship at this school". That means they actually want to win, not play for the sake of playing.

I want kids that are trying to get to the NBA. For one, it means they are good, and two, it means they're trying to improve their games to get to the next level. If you ask me, wanting to win a championship and wanting to improve to get to the next level are exactly the kind of kids I want at IU.

JHoosiers77 · 1 year ago

Would love for IU to have kids that want to win a championship/go the the NBA, as well as want to play for the sake of playing the game. Dont know if class basketball is the main reason but many kids will tell you their AAU team (in many sports) is more important than their high school team - in other words it would be great if they win a state championship but its more important to find a college that will allow me to develop into the highest draft choice. I didnt see nearly as much of this attitude as I've seen since class basketball came into being in IN. Not saying any of this is good or bad but that what has happended in the past ten years is nothing like the previous 50. If you're looking for kids to see IU in the same light as the bloggers on this post are I just dont see it happening. None of the kids being recruited today were alive in 1987 - you can be successful at the D1 level with Butler type kids - if Coach C can get these Butler type of kids as well as one or two NBA level kids than IU can be chasing championships again.

msdiu81 · 1 year ago

I want kids that want to play college ball and compete for a championship, not kids that necessarily want to play in the NBA. Why? Because the ones that think they want to play in the NBA will only be playing to improve their stock. I'm also tired of hearing this Butler type kids. Ok, I have enjoyed Butler play over the past few years, but when was the last time they went to the final four? So, I don't want to hear that argument that's the kids we need, because they aren't good enough. They have won a large amount of games in a mid-major conference, but they don't end up in the final four. We haven't either lately and it's true the recruits weren't alive since our last championship. But they were alive for our last final four, which was only 6 years ago. Butler would love to say they were in a final four within the last 6 years as would many teams. The point is, get good players committed to a team environment and follow the coach's direction, and have them buy into what they were brought to college to do: win a college championship. Let's face it the last really good NBA player to come out of IU was Isiah. Cheaney ended up a role player. Jeffries has disappeared in New York. Alford lasted 4 years. Bailey didn't make it a year. Henderson was a role player. Gordon may end up doing something, but that remains to be seen. So, I don't give a crap about future NBA players. Just get some guys that want to play. AAU has ruined high school sports in that the players have been told they are great since they were in 4th grade and they are the star. College is a stepping stone and no one is dedicated to a school anymore. The NBA rule of waiting a year is wrong on many levels. If a kid is good enough to go pro after high school, let him. Why have colleges waste a scholarship on guys who are just biding their time till the NBA calls? Ok, I'm done with my rant. Go Hoosiers and go coach Crean!!

cookcmc · 1 year ago

I agree, IU has never recruited the NBA player (until Gordon), and really doesn't have an NBA player playing right now with any significance.
I think Crean's coaching mentality is such that he doesn't want the 1 and done which I coudn't agree more with.
Class basketball blows.

BGleas · 1 year ago

Well we don't have an NBA player right now because we're not going to be that good next year, but we've had that talent in the past.

All of our good teams had NBA talent. It's a total misconception that Bob Knight won with lesser recruited players that weren't the most talented but played hard team basketball.

That described Knights teams that didn't win. His teams that won a lot had plenty of first round draft picks and highly recruited players on it. They didn't all pan out in the NBA, but while at IU they were considered top recruits and NBA prospects. Isiah Thomas? Hall-of Famer. Kent Benson, wasn't he the #2 pick in the draft? Steve Alford was a first round pick, I believe a lottery pick. Those are the IU teams that won titles.

Also, look at the top teams in college basketball now, they all have top recruits and first round picks on them.

Do we want to be Butler? Or do we want to be UNC, Kansas, UCLA or Duke. I personally fall in the latter group, seems like a lot of IU fans fall in the former, and I flat out don't understand that.

MikeinNC · 1 year ago

I don't care much for the decision that was made to go to class basketball in Indiana, and I think the attendance trends would support that it has not been successful in captivating the fans at tournament time, but I see no correlation between class basketball and kids' willingness to play for the glory of IU....

Ryan_Btown · 1 year ago

damn...damn

RGH · 1 year ago

I just noticed that tomorrow is Indiana Theme Day on the Big Ten Network where they will review the best of 2007-2008. It made me think that this has been an unbelievably tough year for the Hoosiers. I am amazed how we can all be optimistic about the future of IU sports after the year we have been through. From Coach Hep to Sampson to Crean to the Hearings... it has been a roller coaster.

Go Hoosiers!

jgongora86 · 1 year ago

I want to win championships. Don't get me wrong I love hard working teams who give everything they have for our university. But there comes a point when you have to ask why do they want to work hard? whats their motivation? I think its to win a championship. I just take it upon myself to appreciate players who gave it their all ( a.j. moye). Aim for the best I say, and if doesn't happen be happy they gave it their best.

Disco_Briscoe · 1 year ago

Big A or anyone else...Is there anyone else that the team may possibly add this summer or do you think we can call it quits on the recruiting for the 08-09 season?