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Having said that, I hope they have some idea of who they will talk to and will have come up with an offer that will make any of the coaches take a long hard look before turning IU down.
There are several coaches that could be successful at IU in time but to get the program back quickly will require a big name. It will be interesting to see what IU will do.
It is going to be a long spring and wait to find out.
I fear we will try to "Gerry Faust" this thing and go with a good guy but one who is not ready.
Its so much better to build teams like the Purdue squad, Xavier, Drake, Butler,Duke, Fla and schools that lose a few in upper classmen only but still get darn good players. If Eubanks is a "one and done" then perhaps we are just as well off.
Give me a DJ any day over an OJ Mayo
I don't understand, under any circumstances, why you wouldn't want a Carmello Anthony, Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, Michael Beasley, etc... Does that mean you also don't like having the Big 10's leading scorer in Cream and Crimson?
It's true that you build "teams" better with four year players, but these "one and done" players often mean the difference between sweet sixteen and final four. I mean, what's wrong with building a team of four year players, with a sprinkle of great ones?
There's a million reasons these guys are "one and done", but the first is because they are really good at basketball. If they are quality kids, like EJ appears to be, I want them on IU, especially if they're from Indiana...but I digress.
That formula has worked rather well for a couple of teams around here. I'm not sure if anyone knows it, but Duke and North Carolina are pretty good squads year in and year out.
Hating one-and-done players is a little close-minded. Would I like to see a good player stay for four years if he's on my favorite team? Yeah. But what if Gordon stayed with Illinois? We'd be all posting about how he's ready and needs to go now!
By the way, Robbie Hummel, I think you're ready.
Having a mix of top notch players that take a couple of years to develop mixed in with the outstanding high school star ready for the cash of the NBA is the way to really excel in the college game now. For the one-and-done guys, you tip your cap after a Final Four run, say "Thank you, young man and good luck" and then start looking to properly fill the void when he is gone.
UCLA, Memphis, Tenn, Duke, UNC, Kansas , UCONN, Georgetown, Xavier, Texas all need a one and done to be in the hunt this year ? How many did Fla have last 2 years ?
Think again with facts this time
Memphis: Derrick Rose
Duke and UNC will not be in the hunt.
Same with Georgetown and UConn (moreso UConn).
Texas' ineffective coach will make sure they aren't in it next year.
Think again with facts before you retort.
But, in reality, no, they don't need those impact freshmen to be in the hunt because those teams have rosters full of good basketball players. But, tell me 17 points and 11 boards per game doesn't help UCLA win.
Put another way, does tOSU even get the opportunity to play for the title without Greg Oden (or Connolly)? Is K.St. even above .500 without Beasley. Does IU win 25 games without EJ? I'm speculating, but I don't think so.
My point is that IU should get the best players (if they are quality kids). Your point seems to be that because Florida won the NCAA two years in a row without contributing freshmen, that IU shoud not care about losing a blue-chip recruit. It defies logic.
Let Ebanks leave he didnt even make the McDonalds All American Game and he is supposed to be on the top 15 players in the country to me that throws up a red flag
Im Nominating Armon Basset for Big Ten Player of the Year 2008-09 Season
Ebanks good luck kid and I understand althoughhhhhhhh.......if you go to rutgers or miami.....enjoy playing in front of 15-125 people per night and good luck making the tourney.....THE BIG EAST tourney that is......
You could at least talk to IU's new coach Anthony Grant, Sean Miller, or Brad Brownell....you can't sign until April anyhow.
It'd be an upset if he doesn't end up at Memphis.
Second, I believe the Big East plays all sixteen teams now. People griped about it, so they changed it. Eventually, they're going to wise up and realize that 16 teams is way too many.
Plus, they have a section for students where they get to come in wearing beach wear.
This is from the National Letter of Intent's Web site:
Is a National Letter of Intent binding if the coach of my sport leaves the institution?
Yes. The National Letter of Intent you signed with an institution is valid if the coach who recruited you leaves the institution with which you signed. When you sign a National Letter of Intent you sign with an institution and not with a coach or a specific team.
That being said, I find the new poll very interesting. Bruce Pearl did not run a clean program at USI. There may have been no violations, but anyone that went to USI during the time he was there knows what I'm talking about.
If I had to label the coaches I would do this.....
Sure fire proven coach, no risk.....Sean Miller
Great coach some risk......Bruce Pearl
Good up and coming coach, great recruiter, could win, some risk .....Anthony Grant
http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp...
I've got to be honest, I don't get the Anthony Grant thing. He's a second year coach. He plays in what I consider a "second-tier" mid-major. The Colonial isn't exactly CUSA or the Horizon League. I get that he engineered a great tourney victory last year, and almost beat Pitt in the 2nd round. I get that he's been under the tutelage of Billy Donovan. All well and good.
But he's got a guy on his team that doesn't belong in the Colonial. Eric Maynor is REALLY good. And he's not Grant's recruit. So, is it the coaching or is it Jeff Capel's recruiting?
I'm not saying it's one or the other. I'm just saying that's too big of a question for a program like Indiana to attempt to answer.
Who has VCU beaten in Grant's time? You could argue they really haven't beaten anyone they shouldn't have this year. A win over Houston is nice. Their one quality win this year is at Maryland, which is a GREAT win. So, we're hanging our hat on 2 quality wins in 2 years? When the reason for those wins could be a player that could start for a lot of Top 25 teams? When that player wasn't recruited by said coach?
Hard to believe a 38 year old is already "there", but I truly think he is.
Miller '08: Yes we can!
Second...beating Maryland at Maryland isn't that great a deal this year. American did it. Why aren't we talking about Jeff Jones. Ohio also won there this year. Virginia Tech did it, and they're firmly on a very tenuous bubble for the NCAA.
None of those schools went the "young up and coming" route. They all went with a somewhat battle tested coach from a major conference, but not necessarily a major program (Williams from Kansas the exception).
Howland came from Pitt (Big East), Self came from Illinois (Big Ten), Gillespe from A&M (Big 12) and Williams from Kansas (Big 12). You could argue IU already did this with Sampson, but I would say two things. 1) Minus the violations he was being successful on the court. 2) The blueprint seems to work, you just have to actually do your homework and work it correctly.
With all that being said, I would start the search with this list before going the "young unproven route". I'm sure I'm missing some, so feel free to add.
In no particular order:
Crean (Big East)
Wright (Big East)
Pearl (SEC...Assuming he's clean NCAA wise)
Matta (Big Ten)
Hewitt (ACC)
Barnes (Don't really like him, but he fits the criteria here)
Just my two cents. If we go the young route, I would then go with Miller or Bennett.
Wall Street Journal has on the front page of the Weekend section a sleazy story about recruting of Delmar Derozan at USC. KS maybe broke rules but sleazy ?????
just because Scott Drew, Brad Brownell or Anthony Grant haven't had head coaching experience with a major program doesn't mean they couldn't develop into successful (and more importantly long-time) coaches at Indiana.
I think I said your boys are good just not ready NOW
let's face it, regardless of who comes in, IU is going to have to rebuild for 1-2 seasons (at least). it's not like Wright or Miller is going to suddenly take the 2008-09 IU team to a Elite 8/Final 4 and someone like Grant or Brownell would automatically take them to the NIT.
IU should be willing to give the young "unproven" guys that don't already coach big-time programs a chance to come in and continue the promise they've already shown with their schools (Grant: VCU, Brownell: UNCW, wright state and Drew: baylor, valpo). those guys have all had a lot of success and are great recruiters - it's not like i'm advacating hiring dane fife here.
You are aiming for a 2pt shot while I am aiming for the 3 and the win,,,NOW.
Bo Ryan did not take 2 seasons to reload after losing 60+% of his scoring from last year. Sampson did pretty well last yr with what he was handed.
UW-Platteville and UW-Milwaukee. good thing that Wisconsin didn't follow you're "PROVEN with a big-time program" approach that you want IU to follow.
three Big Ten Championships later, id say Wisconsin did pretty well with that hire. thanks for proving my original point that IU should take a shot on an unproven guy fthat has had a lot of success with mid-majors.
Chris Bosh
Javaris Crittenden
Jarrett Jack
Thaddeus Young
Luke Schenscher
Will Bynum
Anthony Morrow
BJ Elder
Mario West
Quite the load of talent. However, I guess you could argue Hewitt hasn't gotten far with said talent, even though it's a little tougher in the ACC.
You need to try his success w Siena in the NCAA as your argument then you have something
Note the caveat at the end of my diatribe. Don't think he's a winner, but just an interesting candidate.
Maybe we can all compromise with that.
To CoveyDale: I hear what you're saying, but how many historically major programs are there? UNC - Kentucky - UCLA - Kansas...Maybe Duke? Well I mentioned four of those five in my list. With the available pool of major programs, that's a large sample size.
Roy Williams won, but with Matt Doherty's players. If he doesn't go to the Final Four again this year, there might be some grumblings coming from Chapel Hill.
Gillespie has guided Kentucky to a very tenuous bubble position for the NCAA.
The only one out of there that has done really well has been Howland. And like Coveydale said, Lavin had already put a pretty solid core there (bunch of Sweet 16s in a row). So don't think because a guy has been able to do well briefly makes him the best solution for Indiana long term.
Marquette has been grossly overrated in Crean's time there, Pearl is excelling in an SEC that features Vanderbilt and a rebuilding LSU, Florida and Kentucky squads, Matta isn't going anywhere, Hewitt is a colossal underachiever at Ga Tech (seriously? Matt Causey?) and Rick Barnes is an even greater choke job in Texas.
Of the "established" coaches you've listed, only Wright or Matta would make the cut, as far as I'm concerned.
There's so many Final Fours and championship game appearances in that list that I don't even have the time to research the total number.
IU should be so lucky
You need to look past the rankings. UNC is terribly flawed and will most likely not be number 1 next week. How many championships did Roy Williams win at Kansas again? Memphis is in a league of also rans, at best. Tennessee looked oh so impressive at Florida, a team that probably won't make the tournament this year, but is still living high off the bounce of beating a horribly overrated Memphis team. Duke
Matta, good coach. Gillespie? Eh, the jury's still out. Hewitt's run to the final game was a fluke. Just how good is Ga Tech this year in a down ACC? Are they even over .500? Yeah, they played IU tough and Kansas tough, but to say that Paul Hewitt is the answer to anything other than "Who coached the team that lost to Connecticutt the second time" is delusional, at best.
I'm looking at a complete body of work. Roy Williams has been to multiple final fours and championship games (winning one), consistently recruits McDonald All-Americans and is consistently in the top 10 whether at Kansas or UNC. You bashed Bill Self above, he consistently recruits 5-star and 4-star players and is in the top 10 every year.
You know what, I'll take that body of a work from a coach and roll the dice in the tournament.
I'm not saying Self is anywhere near what Doherty was/is, but you have to admit that his teams are consistently underpeformers in the tournament. What was the big criticism of Knight for his final years in Bloomington? That he kept getting bounced in the first round.
Self is young enough, he may establish himself down the road, as a lot of peple had the same criticism of Florida (being highly ranked and yet making early exits from the tournament year after year) under Donovan. I don't think anyone is going to criticize him now.
Either way this debating is fun, this is what sports is all about:)
I noticed somewhere above that Miller is a guy your hoping for. Even though I'm hoping for a little more proven guy, I can definitely get on board with Miller. He was a smart player and seems to be a smart coach as well. I think he's kind of meeting in the middle of our sides of the debate.
I'm all about the younger coach who can connect with the kids more. I think that a lot of recruiting (outside of the top programs) is the charisma of the coach. So, I think, a younger coach is more able to get into a kid's living room than someone more established and older, unless that older guy is at a top program.
as for crean, i couldn't agree more. he is a chronic underachiever that hasn't done anything outside of the 2003 squad led by dwayne wade and travis diener. hiring him would be a disaster.
And when I say "Matta isn't going anywhere", I say it as "Matta is very happy at Ohio State, a team that he is building into a national powerhouse and is not coming to Indiana, as much as I'd like him to". Read the whole post next time.
Davidson can't be, because they lost to NC State. As far as hating a program, NC State is tops on my list, even moreso than Purdue.
As I would rank them, right now:
1) UCLA
2) Kansas
3) UNC
4) Texas
5) Louisville
I think UCLA is the real deal, and I think Kansas is balanced.
A lot rests on Ty Lawson's ankle at UNC.
Texas is talented, but like Kansas, the big question mark is their coach.
Louisville is playing some really good basketball right now and they are peaking at the right time.
I threw the records out the window and tried to look at talent and who is playing good basketball right now.
let ebanks be free to explore whatever options he wants in the meantime. i think he should at least give IU the chance (and if he doesn't, IU make him) to bring in somebody new and see if he can develop a good relationship with that coach and if he likes his philosophy.
rememeber, DJ originally said he was definitely transferring after davis left until he got the chance to sit down with sampson and then decided to stay. vaden bolted town before even giving sampson a handshake.
Billy Donovan
Billy Donovan
Roy Williams
Jim Calhoun
Jim Boeheim
Gary Williams
Coach K
Tom Izzo
Jim Calhoun
Tubby Smith
Those are pretty household names. Who out of these guys were "up and comers"?
Answer: none. They had paid their dues, for the most part, at their respective schools.
Just trying to make the point that this thing won't happen over-night, so hopefully WHOEVER coaches next year gets a very big grace period.
Roy Williams was established.
Jim Calhoun was an up-and-comer through Northeastern.
Boeheim was an assistant coach and then named head coach, both for Syracuse.
Gary Williams had been an up-and-comer when he went to Ohio State, then went home to Maryland.
Coach K was an "up and comer" from Army when he was hired at Duke. In fact, K almost was canned after three years at Duke.
Izzo wasn't even a head coach before Heathcote handed the reins over, so he wasn't even up-and-coming.
Tubby Smith had established himself as an up-and-comer when he was hired at Georgia, where he continued success. His years at Kentucky are already well documented.
Of that list, we have four guys who were hired because they played for those teams.
Only R. Williams, G. Williams, and Smith had prior coaching positions at major (now-BCS schools) schools. Two of them (Izzo and Boeheim) were top assistants who were given the head coaching positions from there.
Of those ten men (Donovan and Calhoun counted only once), it was a combined 124 years to win a national championship, or roughly 15.5 years to do it. Izzo was the shortest at 5, Boeheim the longest at 27.
So, you're right, no one's going to win this thing overnight. But at the same time, there's no guarantee that an established coach will do the trick any sooner than a young up-and-comer
I think the A-10 falls somewhere between Major and Mid-Major, and Miller has proven himself somewhat in the tournament.
That's another part of this for IU. Bringing the fan base together.
Miller has 8 players from Ohio , 2 Indiana, 2 Pa etc. I say pretty narrow but OK.
Bennett has Australia, New Zealand, Serbia, Germany, Colo, Ca, WIsc, Ore, Wash etc.
Sound slike Tony wil go the end of the effing earth for players. Maybe we could see the next Manute Bol at IU................ok, Hasheem Thabeet, Hakim Olajuwon
Moving up to somewhere like IU, then he'd have a lot more area to go with.
If you toss out the foreign players, then most of Bennett's recruits are localized and then the Wisco kids from his connection to that program.
Major programs (Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, Indiana and so on) can go more national.
Bennett has enough national and international scope to compete w teams you mentioned right away, and, he can flat out coach against tough teams in tough venues night in and night out. They are the same age.
I would go w Jay Wright if I could becasue his meat and potatoes is in championship areas NY metro, Balt/Wash, Phila.
Bring in a guy like Wright (just an example) who has ties elsewhere and that broadens the recruiting base. Whoever the coach is will be able to recruit Indiana and Midwest guys just being the coach at Indiana, assuming he's a half decent recruiter. Add to that ties from another region and we'll be even better...Especially places like NYC, Philly & Balt/DC.
Thus I would want to know Miller's recruiting strengths a little better since he appears to stick to Cincy and Toledo for about 1/2 his players
BUT.....I would not be upset if we began and ended with Sean Miller. Forget the conference he is in.....he produces good teams with what he has and competes against the big boys year in and year out. I saw them when the beat IU and the difference in the game was he outcoached KS primarily from the offensive end. IU did not know what the hell Xavier was doing.......Defensively.....they played in your FACE the entire game. Greeny if you are on this site....that is your FIRST phone call.
I DO NOT want Rick Barnes, Boehim, or anyone of that group.....go get a young coach who will be here for a long time....
Contrast w Jay Wright however w all players from NY metro, Balt/Wash metro and Phila metro . Plus keep in mind he has Big East exposure in Chicago ( Marquette, Depaul, ND ) area and Ohio/Kentucky ( Cincy, Louisville) and FLorida.
As a result I voted for Bennett, would have voted for Wright and l like Miller. But I feel Grant , Brownell , Drew are just not in the same league as yet.
Kelin is usually pretty smart but perhaps you have not caught VCU on tv this year. ODU outcoached Grant to win and he was fortunate against GMU in the 2 games I saw. Nice D however. Did he recruit the Russian ?
I assume that his recruiting would have to improve at IU, so imagine him coaching the same winning ways, but with even more talent.
I guess it depends on what scope IU wants its program to have. I viewed KS as building a National program ala Duke, UNC, UCLA, Kansas, UCONN etc. and I admit to wanting that . Not to say Purdue fans with regional players are not happy right now.
My point is that Miller has no experience winning recruiting wars in the top 100 and appears to have limited relationships outside a small subset of Ohio. He may have inherited those from the program built earlier by Gillen. Prosser, Matta. Before putting him #1 we need to assess his recruiting scope and success.
Applying the same logic to the limited info I have on Bennett and Wright however I get a very different and more comforting feeling about their desire, energy , experience , relationships and ability to take us National (or International in Bennett's case) when recruiting. Bennett recruited Devin Harris , Alando Tucker and even Brian ( the bastard ) Butch before leaving for WSU.
Therefore I put Miller below both men . They can all coach like crazy . Wright's 3 guard offense would be perfect for us now
I keep wondering why we all ignore Jay Wright. he recruits the big citites on the east coast, wins w short guys/guards in a tough conference, has national exposure due to the big east reach from Chicago to CIncy to Fla to Boston. ............and he too can win the hair competition