Inside the Hall - Latest Comments in A first look: 2010 recruiting class

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

BGleas — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:13:35 -0000

Ok, dude...I guess winning is of no importance to you. Hey, i have an idea dude, how about we just make the basketball team a club sport instead of varsity?

If we want to return to the prestige that IU basketball has had in the past, including Big Ten titles and National Championships then you need NBA quality players consistently coming into your program, especially big men.

I don't know why there is this misconception that winning in college basketball today and recruiting top high school players means selling youself to the devil and recruiting drug adicts that can read. Look at UNC, Duke, UCLA and Kansas. All very successful program over the last decade and longer and for the most part all those program are clean and have recruited respected citizens and students.

Why wouldn't you want winning players like Hansbrough, Russell Westbrook, Brandon Rush and Kyle Singler? All were top recruits that will play or are playing in the NBA, and all were model citizens and winners in college. What is so bad about that dude?

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

Pat — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:45:17 -0000

We are not looking for NBA players dude...we are looking for guys that will graduate and are team players so i dont know what you are talking about

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

BGleas — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:21:38 -0000

I wasn't speaking specifically about 2010. Just in general that you almost always need at least one NBA caliber big man, a few other solid ones, to win the title. Other than DJ White Indiana hasn't had a big man headline a recruiting class in a long time.

Syracuse had Warrick, Maryland had Baxter (All-American) and Wilcox (lottery pick). MSU is the last team to not have that. You're also right about Arizona, but that's twice in the last 11 years. Even most of the runner's up had NBA quality bigs. The myth that college basketball is a guards game is exactly that, a myth.

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

Bryan — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:00:46 -0000

Here's what I came up with:

The last 10 years - teams with elite big men that won titles.
2004 - UConn - Emeka Okafor
2005 - North Carolina - Sean May
2006, 2007 - Florida - Noah, Horford

No singular stud big man, but plenty of frontcourt firepower
1998 - Kentucky - no stud big, but the front court had longtime NBA players Jamal Magloire and Scott Padgett, and had two other 6'10'' players.
1999 - UConn - Jake Voskhul, plus 3 more frontcourt players taller than 6'11''
2001- Duke - Carlos Boozer, Shane Battier are 6'9'', and the team had 3 additional players at 6'10'' or taller.
2002 - Maryland (ugh) - no "stud", but Chris Wilcox has a pro career, and their frontline was 6'10'', 6'10'', 6'9''

The others
2000 - Michigan State - no one of note, and no one taller than 6'9''.
2003 - Syracuse - not as tall, but Hakim Warrick (6'9'') had the wingspan of a condor, and a solid NBA career.

So, of the last 10:
- 4 had premier (at least at the college level) big men.
- 4 others had frontcourts with multiple players about 6'10'', with at least one NBA level talent among them.
- Syracuse had a unique big in Warrick, and I can't really explain Michigan State.

In 8 of 10 circumstances, the winning team had imposing size in their frontcourt, or a game changing C/PF. Seems like a pretty good track record, especially now that premier high school players can't go directly to the NBA anymore.

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

Bryan — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:38:36 -0000

The team will be taller next year, and certainly much improved. I just remember how last year's team struggled against taller teams. Granted, UConn is a bit of a freak show as far as height is concerned, but we lost handily to Arkansas. Even if you excuse that loss to the Kelvin Sampson fiasco, we also couldn't close the deal against Wisconsin, and struggled more than we probably should have against Illinois and Ohio State, who were among the top 20 teams in effective height (for those of you that read Ken Pomeroy's site) last year.

All I'm really trying to say I'd prefer to not see guards for the sake of guards in the 2010 class. If they aren't blue chip recruits, or if Crean isn't convinced he's found the next Dwayne Wade (who was on no one's recruiting lists), I'd prefer him to take a pass rather than filling a spot. Of course, I don't just want the tallest guy available either. Others have posted that they'd prefer to pass 2010 in order to land more top recruits in 2011. I think I might be in that camp as well.

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

CoveyDale — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:12:23 -0000

"mostly guard skills oriented" - you're right on the money with that, Jerry.

in the past, Crean hasn't had teams that trotted out all players 6'4 and under. but, all of his bigs (the best example probably being Steve Novak) could step out and stretch the defense ala Kirk Haston.

that got me thinking, what's the over/under on the amount of points Haston would average per game under Crean? 64 1/2?

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

hoosierfan27 — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:24:08 -0000

We'll gain a lot of size with the freshman class

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

Pat — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:18:46 -0000

i would like to say that Crean could go after a JUCO player in the 10 class because the team needs leadership and would give us scholarships in 2 years, but i love the class of 2011

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

Brad — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:09:59 -0000

Sure I would love a stud big man, but who is that going to be in the 2010 class? The only one with a remote interest is Josh Smith and that isn't going to happen.

Also, there are several teams that have won recently without a big man that I would consider a stud. Syracuse, Maryland, the aformentioned MSU, UCONN in '99, Arizona in '97. Those are just some I can think of quickly. I think the common factor is that you have to have STUD players in general and probably multiple studs. We are getting there and may already have two in the fold (Watford and Creek)....we shall see. If we could add a stud scorer and ball handler like Irving that would only help our team. At least in my eyes. Of course I also see Pritchard as a potential All-Big Ten performer. One of those 15 and 8 guys on a good team.

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

Kelin Blab — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:43:15 -0000

I read on another blog on the side there......mike davis is about to lose a bunch of players to academic issues....not to mention MD jr. is academically ineligible. Not good for Mike D.

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

Kelin Blab — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:39:54 -0000

J-
I agree with that, the 2011 class is a class that is strong all the way around and we are starting out on a level playing field with other coaches.......I say screw 2010 if no one major comes in and focus on the next year.

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

Sallad — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:33:10 -0000

The jump on the sidebar from 2009 Commits to 2011 Commit(s) is always a little jarring to me. I mean, I know that we don't have anyone, but sometimes it does prompt a mental "Really?"

In other news, Rick Greenspan opened the door for me today at Chipotle.

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

IndianaJoe — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:14:48 -0000

I don't think that's stupid at all, but I think Crean should throw a few lines in the water and see if a big fish bites. If he can't get a big time recruit, there's no need to worry because the 2011 class is loaded with talent. Crean needs to start establishing relationships with these kids now instead of going after mediocre talent in 2010.

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

JerryCT — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:20:01 -0000

IMO I donot see Crean's offense as a "guard" based offense as much as an offense that rewards and requires all around skills at every position. He really only needs 1 PG for example the rest donot have to be guards at all.

Our offense starts most of the time out of a 1-4 High set ( vs a stack down low etc ) and every one in the scheme must be able to cut, pass, dribble and set picks. (Which is why Moore is setting picks half the time). It assumes that all 5 players have a way to score vs last year's 2 person team ie dumping down to DJ and sets for EJ .

I admit it looks like it is "guard" oriented but it mostly "guard skills" oriented. If 6'6"+ guys were able enough to do all the things required ( ie Watford, maybe Elston ) then it will not look so much like all guards.

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

joejoe — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:03:14 -0000

You have been "waiting your whole life?" DJ just graduated. I could understand if you said I have been waiting my whole life for IU to sign another Isaiah Thomas or Quinn Buckner those guys have been gone awhile. Give it some time.

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

JerryCT — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:52:14 -0000

Do I have to be stupid to agree with you ? Just wondering.

I think as perhaps you do that it would be better to defer recruitng "projects" or relatively unattractive talent to land quality later. I also think it would actually help smooth the flow of recruits and better target and balance them to the positions we need as we have time to see how our guys are working out.( ie development, injuries, transfers ).

So I agree with Tberry, Hoostheman as well.

Lets face it.

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

Pat — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:49:38 -0000

I think that Coach Crean should get one recruit in the '10 class, because Crosby will likely be a bust, and what i have heard about Mobley is that he can provide 12 and 7 for his highschool team, "really that dosent seem productive at all to me". So go after someone big or dont offer any scholarships at all, cause that 2011 class is loaded with kids from Indiana and Illinois, such as Teague (pg) Davis (pg) Chandler(c) Zeller (pf) Plumlee (pf) Thompson (sf) and Randle (sg)....any other comments on that class or 11'

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

jgon86 — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:24:11 -0000

I have a stupid idea. How about not using any scholarships on the 2010 class. We all agree that he is way behind in recruiting this class, and I don't want to recruit another big man who is an experiment or not highly recruited. Yet he is way ahead and we can cash in big time for the 2011 and 2012 classes. Furthermore, we would only have to worry about having a limited amount of scholarships once every four years. Hu?

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

tberry — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:10:05 -0000

Not if they are all guards or small forwards!!!

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

Taskmaster75 — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:06:18 -0000

Well, the problem is, Crean's offense is based all around guards, so an excess of guards should usually be expected. We have yet to see what this offense will look like. Im pretty sure we will see it every game next year.

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

hoostheman — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:37:21 -0000

I think we're getting into a forest/tree situation here. With the 2009 class on board IU will have a fairly balanced team between the front and back courts. In 2010 we should be going after the most talented players available irrespective of position.

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

JerryCT — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:00:50 -0000

Sorry , I meant Mobley

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

JerryCT — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:00:23 -0000

If we have 2 schollies I would go for 1 of each but have higher requirements for each. One big who is a dynamite defender and one guard who is a scoring PG and can defend the point of attack against speed.

I donot know COusins but he does not sound like either one .

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

BGleas — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:58:48 -0000

Brad -

I understand your point about Pritchard, Elston, Capo, Watford and Muniru, all seem like good gets for the interior game, but I think a lot of people's frustration is, other than DJ, when was the last time a big man was the headliner of a recruiting class for IU?

When was the last time we had a stud big recruit?

Re: A first look: 2010 recruiting class

BGleas — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:55:32 -0000

Name the last team to win it all without a big man? How is Noah not a big man? Those Florida teams had two bigs drafted in the NBA lottery, and many believe Horford should have been rookie of the year last year.

I think the last team to win a title without a true legit big was maybe Michigan State?